Gebara – Out of the Depths Chapter 4: Women’s Experience of Salvation
Thought #2
Ok – so here’s an interesting thought: “… churches, like the global market, dominate people and encourage people to become dangerously alienated – often leading to their human damnation in concrete history.” (pg 131)
First thought: That’s what churches CLAIM to *NOT-do* … human damnation and alienation are at the core of what religion claims to be counteracting.
Second thought: There was this fella I was dating. (Woo Hoo for me!!). I liked him a lot, and I’m pretty sure he liked me a lot too. (Woo Hoo again!). We had fabulous conversations, enjoyed doing many of the same things (dorky stuff like singing Karaoke to Neil Diamond in the front room), our children got along beautifully, his children liked me and my Grommets liked him. We found each other attractive, and we both seemed to offer (as a person) things that the other delighted in. Sounds pretty awesome, huh! Well it was. EXCEPT …
He practiced a religion that told him that he is unable to attain full salvation unless he is married through a special ceremony. A woman, such as myself, who is not a member of his religion, is unable to participate in any of said special ceremonies. Therefore, if he chose to marry me, he would be choosing to eschew his personal salvation. That is bullshit. Would I join his church? No. I don’t believe what they teach and for me to claim membership in something that is contrary to my beliefs is completely out of integrity. I live in integrity.
So – this church of his definitively encouraged him to alienate himself from me … someone for whom he cared deeply and who cared deeply for him in return. If he chose to disregard his church’s encouragement, he was (at least according to its dogma) entering damnation. Wow.
All because I frame my relationship with God differently than he does.
What’s funny, though, is that it was ok for me to frame my relationship with his children differently than he does. It was ok for him to frame his relationship with my mother differently than I do. It was ok to have differing ways of speaking to friends, and expressing thanks to benefactors.
So what gives?
Because I don’t (in ANY way) believe in absolute truth, it's unlikely that I'll be convinced that his church (or any church for that matter) is "serious" business and that following its precepts is mandatory for salvation. Odds are slim of convincing me that whether I choose to address God on bended knee, in the lotus position, or standing with my face raised to the sky while dancing, or whether I address the creator as “Dude”, “Father”, “Mother”, or “It” has any bearing on the legitimacy of my relationship with him/her/it.
And neither should it have any bearing on whether or not someone is "marriage material."
So … why don’t people see that? See that alienation and (false) perception of damnation? I feel kinda sad about that.
I feel sad for you. I really feel sad for him. He gave YOU up for what? A stupid religion (I think they are all stupid). This fella needs to get his priorities straight. I feel worried for my two boys. In this culture we live in, I worry they won't find a mate who isn't so tied up in religion to see what great boys they are. Sad
ReplyDeleteThanks, Ms. Oyl for your support and condolences! I brought up the point about my once-was-boyfriend to illustrate the "real world" effects of being "set apart" (aka: alienated) through religion which (on the whole) claims a purpose of *uniting* souls.
ReplyDeleteWhen applied, it doesn't seem to promote its alleged agenda very well, though, huh.
I see a lot of people suffer a lot idiocy in the name of God and Right. I wish it weren't that way, but even the mere statement of "this is the only/right way" is horrendously arrogant and exclusive. Arrogance and exclusivity hurt the people who employ them and those upon whom they're employed. No one wins. (and, well, that pretty much sums up my views on organized religion ... regardless of the sect).
I find it interesting that she compared the Global Market to Religion in my opening quote, too. Wondering a bit more about that .... Any thoughts Beerconomist??? (You're *for sure* the pro on this one!!!)
Maybe we could hook up my boys with your girls. Then I would know that they were raised right by their mama! ;)
ReplyDeleteYou being the mama (not sure if I made that clear) :)
ReplyDeleteGood plan! My oldest almost 7 ... your youngest isn't too much older ........ let's check that out in a few more years!!! :D
ReplyDeleteAfter some hours have passed, and some experiences have been had, I must confess that I am having my eyes opened to the value of religion in some cases.
ReplyDeleteI'll not go into details at this time, but I suspect I'll make a post shortly about some of the very nice and very good stuff that can come of it.
Yes, my youngest is 11 (and adorable) !
ReplyDeleteI've been trying for a few days to wrap my brain around the comparison of religion to the global market. I'm not sure I see it.
ReplyDeleteI can say that capitalism in general happily perpetrates competition, and competition by definition has winners and losers. Religion generally has winners and losers too (as defined by the religion). Maybe that's why Gebara compared them?
And, capitalism claims to provide the greatest opportunity for success and achievement, but once again, always creates a win-lose relationship. Likewise, I feel like religion draws a line in the sand (win/lose) and demands that people make a choice. The win/lose scenario is a recipe for alienation, ostracization, and ultimately conflict.
What's fascinating to me is that win/lose is entirely a construct of our collective imagination. It exists only because we believe in it, fight for it, preach it, and fear it. And it holds supreme power in our lives. Not a day goes by that I don't find myself comparing, competing, and damning others - all to make myself feel like the winner (or sometimes, on depressed days, the loser). None of it is real.
And so I feel with organized religion. Its mission seems to be separation: dividing "good" from "evil", and "right" from "wrong"... When I think of God, I can't even fathom limits to him/her, let alone a hard, fast line.
It's all pretty peculiar!
Excellent thoughts - thank you!!
ReplyDeleteI'm thinking about Capitalism emphasizing the individual and private-rights as opposed to community and societal-benefits.
And I think it's flawed. After all, teamwork makes the dream work, right????